Episode 16 - 2025 Season Overview ft. ABA President Steph Horner

[00:00:00] Speaker A: There is a place in the remote northwoods of Minnesota, North America. It's located near the town of orr, population approximately 300. Outside of this town is an area where normal rules are put to one side. It's a place where humans and wildlife meet. It's a special place, wholly unique and not without its controversies. This is the Vint Schutte Wildlife Sanctuary run by the American Bear Association, ABA for short. The ABA is dedicated to promoting a better understanding of black bears and all wildlife through education, observation and experience. I'm your host, Philip Stumbley and welcome to the Bear Den. Hello everyone, it's me, Philip. Depending on when you're listening to this, it's been a while since our last episode, so it's nice to be back or if you've been working your way through more recently, how's it going? I hope you're enjoying it. Welcome to those who are just tuning in and those who are returning as a refresher. Our first run of episodes detailed the long history of the American Bear association, including its founding to more recent history such as radio collaring bears. There are bear facts aplenty, along with education, safety tips, how to coexist peacefully with bears, and lots of chats with volunteers, founders and wildlife professionals. This next run of episodes continues that and sees us spread our wings a little bit to cover other topics and other bears since the last episode. In the interim, I haven't been idle. Well, only under doctor's orders. I'll expand on that a little bit. I wasn't feeling great during the fall autumn last year and thought it was flu, as you know, it was the season. But after a couple of weeks my long suffering partner Asha finally took me to accident and emergency and long story short, we found out that I had a liver abscess, which is very rare I'm told. And it was not just that. It was a medically termed giant liver abscess and it was about the size of a grapefruit. So it had been there for some time. How long, we're not too sure. So I was in the hospital for over two weeks and I had to get a drain put in and I was on IVs and then finally once I was able to get home, I on oral antibiotics for about a month after the consultants got all excited because of my travel history, like living in Southeast Asia for a time and you know, I like to travel so I like to get about. They thought it may be some sort of parasitic infection, but I mean, I guess I let them down and I'm not too disappointed but about that as it was just a boring old bacterial infection that had somehow got in there. Anyhow, it's meant that I had to take things easy for the rest of 2025. And by taking things easy I have gone on a trip to India. But we did, you know, we. We did take it easy, more or less. Luckily I had conducted most of my chats and recorded material for the podcasts in the summertime. I'm glad about that, otherwise I'd have been a bit stressed and what chats they were. My aforementioned travel history refers to my extended time in Indonesia in areas such as Borneo and Sumatra where where I worked still work with the smallest of bear species, sun bears. It's no lie that I'm having guests from all over the world join me in the bear den from places like Indonesia, Australia and the USA to talk bears and beyond, friends who are on the front line of conservation and making the world a better place for wildlife and nature. And I finally get to talk about sun bears, which I'm very excited about. One chat that couldn't really take place until the end of 2025 though, was today's episode, which is a look back over the year of 2025 with ABA President Steph Horner. It's been quite a year, actually, with the introduction of exciting new programs, the return of favorite bears, and a visit to a human bear conflict workshop, to name a few things. We also took the time to remember bears that are no longer with us. I think one of the podcast's requirements is to record our memories of them after all. So we will talk about them in the pod. But I'll be sparing a thought for bears such as Darla and Normberg myself after this. But forgetting about illnesses and such and such, the show must go on. Here's Steph. Welcome back to the Bear Den to ABA President Steph Horner. Listeners may remember that Steph was in one of our earlier episodes, episode seven, where we sat down for a chat about herself and the challenges of running a wildlife sanctuary. But yeah, we'll fast forward to the present. And firstly, how are you, Steph? I. [00:04:40] Speaker A: Oh, and she's frozen. [00:04:44] Speaker B: And we're back. [00:04:45] Speaker A: We're back. I think so, yeah. Wonderful. [00:04:49] Speaker B: Okay. Yeah. [00:04:52] Speaker B: I am doing wonderful. Thank you so much for having me on an episode again. [00:04:58] Speaker A: Oh, it's always a pleasure. Always nice to have people back on. Well, it's. I think you're the only one who's actually returned, so I don't know if I've. What I've said to everyone else, but there we go. [00:05:09] Speaker A: So, yeah, I mean, well, firstly, where are you speaking to us from? [00:05:14] Speaker B: From home today in Cook. So. Yeah, Cook, Minnesota. So about a half hour from the sanctuary. [00:05:20] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, nice. I mean, I don't know if you want me to actually mention this, but I'm just gonna, like, drop it in there, like, because obviously you and Ryan sort of live above and run the Comet Theatre in Cook, which is which. The claim to fame is that it's the oldest continuously running theater in Minnesota since 1939. [00:05:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:05:40] Speaker A: Is that right? [00:05:41] Speaker B: Yes. Sorry, I'm talking a roo. Yes, that is correct. [00:05:45] Speaker A: It must be true, because I've got it on a T shirt. [00:05:49] Speaker B: Yes, absolutely. Although I don't know if we can still say the continuous running now, since we have been a little out of commission now for a while. I mean, we showed movies for about six weeks during the summer, but we're back to. Not. Because we're renovating still, so. [00:06:07] Speaker A: Oh, that's right. Because unfortunately, it was last. It was last year, 2024, where, unfortunately, there were some floods and the cinema got flooded, didn't it? Which was. [00:06:17] Speaker B: Yes, yesterday. [00:06:19] Speaker A: Not a good time. [00:06:21] Speaker B: No, no, Everybody's still recovering. [00:06:24] Speaker A: Yeah. So, yeah. Anyone that's in town, swing by. But, yeah, moving on. Let's go right into, like, how was the 2025 season? I mean, one of the most surprising and exciting things I'm just gonna get right in there and say it. Was that the male bear, Kenai, came back. And listeners may recall, in the Myths and Misconceptions episode, we had former manager Mia Marquez talk about how he was a favorite bear. And I had mentioned that he came in quite late last year looking very skinny and not doing so well. So we. We weren't sure if we'd see him again. So I think we want to hear about that first. So, like, what happened with Keen Eye? [00:06:58] Speaker B: Yes. So last year, we ended up staying until Thanksgiving to help him gain the weight that he needed to and. And to make sure that he was getting water and every day. And so when he left, we did not see him walk much. He was able to walk a little, and then he had to rest. Then he would walk a little, and then he had to rest, and he really didn't get too far. He just kind of made his way over the culvert at the sanctuary. And so when he left, there were definitely tears shed because, honestly, Ryan, Mia and I did not think that we were ever going to see him again. The fact that he. He Was still just not able to put all of his body weight on. That was really concerning. I mean we, we have wolves in the area that I mean he would be a very easy target for that. And you know, I didn't, wasn't worried about his weight because he had gained quite a lot of weight. But I mean anything could happen. He could have, you know, once he came out of the den next spring he could have re injured it and then just know could have been done for. So yeah, we were not super hopeful. However, thankfully we didn't have to wait that long this year. He arrived very, very early, unusually early. I have the date here. It was April 28 that he showed up, which that is usually he's like a July bear. He usually comes sometime between mid to the end of July, usually once berry season is done and once mating is done, he comes back to start packing on the pounds. So we were thrilled that, that we didn't have to wait and wonder and worry. But he did come in, you know, quite skinnier than, than normal. He was still limping on his back left leg. He, he was very stiff, really stiff movements. But, but yeah, I mean he was walking and he was putting his full weight on his, his, his body. So that was really promising to see. And I mean we, we were very hopeful that he was going to be okay, but he wasn't in the clear yet. Bears, I see bears re injure old injuries all the time. And so we were worried and we were trying to be really careful about how much we fed him to not, we didn't want him to gain too much weight too quickly because that could, that could just, you know, aid in him potentially just re injuring himself. So, so yes he did, you know, spent that first couple weeks, he spent quite a lot of time at the sanctuary just I think, you know, trying to regain some of that weight that he lost over the winter. And I will say too, one thing I noticed about him, his personality changed quite a bit. He was very, very nervous. Pretty wary of not just other bears but, but us staff too, which is unusual for his like normal behavior. But I'm sure he knew that he was injured and that left him very vulnerable to, to anything. And so I'm sure he was just aware of that. But yeah, so it was, it was really cool to see that. It wasn't long before he started to get more comfortable walking around. And then before we knew it, it was mating season and we were watching him do some scent marking and tree rubbing and those were things that like, honestly, I Didn't know that I would ever see him do again standing up on his hind legs. At one point, he was chasing a female, he was court clicking her. So we were like, well he, he must be feeling well enough if he's pursuing females if he's wanting to mate. And then it was pretty neat because he, he did disappear during mating season for I want to say like a month, which tells me he probably sought out those preferred females and did in fact spend some time mating. So that, that was really exciting because like I said, we didn't know if he'd even be alive or well enough to do any of those things. So that, that was really cool to see. [00:11:30] Speaker A: And then mating is definitely a. Yeah, it's a definite motivator for most animals. Right? So. [00:11:39] Speaker B: Yeah. So when he did come back though, he didn't really look that well. He had lost almost all of his fur. So it's normal for a bear to molt their winter coat and for them to have maybe a little bit patchy of a summer coat coming in and to maybe sometimes over scratch and rub in places to where you don't have a lot of fur. His like normal molting pattern is for him, we kind of joke that he loses his pants. He typically from like the waist down, he just over, he must over rub to the point where he's usually just kind of bare and you can just see the fine insulated fur that's coming in to make up his summer coat. Well, this year he was really rough looking, super patchy. We kind of joked that I looked like a hippo because he was, I mean, he was, he didn't have a lot of fur. He was lacking a lot of fur. It was just kind of patches of fur here and there. And so all that I can think is that this is the first time that he's ever looked like that. It probably had a lot to do with the fact that he probably didn't get much for nutrition for most of the summer last year. We don't know when he was injured. We just know that he showed up not able to walk sometime. I think it was like October 24th or so. And so really we all of probably the, the nutrition that he got was from October 24th until whatever, you know, November 25th or whatever it was that we stayed last year. So not a lot of time to, to get your proper nutrition. So that probably is why he looked a little bit rougher this year. And then one thing too that like we did notice is that he spent a lot of Time soaking in our creek, which, yeah, it was hotter maybe than normal, but that was new. He. We didn't see him do that a lot in the past. And so, you know, that kind of just left us wondering was he. Did he know that if he soaked in the creek that maybe that would reduce some of the swelling in his leg and ankle or hip, whatever he actually injured. So that was neat to see too. We did notice too, like this year he stayed a lot later with us than normal. I. I want to say usually he leaves sometime end of August, early September. He's an earlier male to leave the sanctuary. But this year he stayed on until almost the end of September. And it was a little bit warmer this year. So we had bears just in general that stayed later. But that's outside of his normal pattern. Like I said in the beginning, I think he probably lives further away since we don't usually see him in the summer until July. And so, you know, maybe just his. His pattern and behaviors have changed a little bit. And then we did. He. He did get to be part of a little experiment type thing that we did with, in partnership with Bear Vault and with famous author, photographer, wildlife biologist Stan Tequila. [00:14:51] Speaker A: Wow. [00:14:51] Speaker B: We tested bear vaults out at the sanctuary, and Keenai got to be part of that. [00:14:57] Speaker A: So tell us. Yeah, tell us about bearvault. What is bearvault? Just for anyone that might not be familiar with them. [00:15:03] Speaker B: Yeah. So I have to find my notes because I wanted to make sure. Here it is. Okay. So basically they are a company that creates these type of canisters that are bear proof. And if you don't know how to open them, they can be people proof too. They're a little bit tricky to open, which is the point. They have to be smarter than the bear because bears are excellent problem solvers. So they're a canister that you can basically put in your backpack for a camping trip, a hiking trip, but more importantly a backpack trip while you're in bear country. And so the idea is that you can literally leave it in your backpack. You don't have to. [00:15:54] Speaker B: Find a tree and string up all of your food and just overall attractants, you can leave it in this canister. So, and the bears essentially just can't get into it. And so they make several different types of canisters. And they had approached Stan about coming out to the sanctuary to test one of their newest products. And so Stan, you know, got. Got a hold of us, was super excited about it. And yeah, we were able to work it out to have them come out was late, late in the season. So it was almost the end of September, so there weren't a ton of bears left. But there, but there were more than enough for us to be able to test that product out. And so basically what, do you want me to just jump into what that entails? [00:16:46] Speaker A: No, yeah, sure. I mean, I've literally, I did a little just look on the Bear Vault website before this and I was like, oh, they're certified apparently to withstand over one hour of non stop testing by grizzlies. So I'm kind of interested to hear how the sanctuary black bears compare. [00:17:01] Speaker B: So, yeah, all I was, I guess was wondering is. And I told the guy this when I saw him because they were at the conference, the human bear conflict conference. [00:17:12] Speaker A: We'll be asking about that later as well. [00:17:13] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And I talked directly to the owner and I had told him, yeah, you know, we didn't have a ton of bears. So we did have to put some attractants on the outside of the canisters to try to just get the bears that we did have to investigate. And so Stan had brought up. [00:17:35] Speaker B: Honey and tuna and like sardines. He just brought a bunch of, you know, stuff that, that super stinky that he thought might attract. And we, we started with the smelly stuff, the tuna and the sardines. It didn't attract anybody. And so we ended up putting honey all over the canisters and that, that did the, that did the trick. So basically it was just a, it was a super fun night of kind of running around and Stan just kind of bossed me around, telling me where to put the canisters to try to get the best shot because he was trying to take photos and video of the product with the bears for Bear Vault. So it wasn't necessarily to like test whether or not they were durable enough. It was more so to just get some photos for Bare Vault, some different photos for their new product. But, but yeah, we had keen. Ey took a lick, of course of the honey at one point. And then we had our sweet old granny Nikki that was somewhat interested in the honey too, and took a couple licks of the canister. [00:18:51] Speaker A: Oh, it's still really cool. And you think there'll be some further collaborations with Bear Vault? [00:18:56] Speaker B: Yeah, so it was like I said, it was really nice to get to meet the, the founder of the company because, yeah, I just let him know, like we had a blast. It was super fun. I think you're gonna really like the photos. And he actually like whipped his phone out and he was like, I do. Like, look at this bear. Does this bear have a name? And it was Kenai looking quite large and in charge in the photo. So, yeah. And I told him, you know, we would be happy to work with you again in the future. It was a really fun project for us to get to be part of something different outside of my everyday. [00:19:30] Speaker A: Yeah, well, that's cool. [00:19:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:19:32] Speaker A: And of course you mentioned Nikki. [00:19:34] Speaker B: Stan's. Yeah, Stan's so great too. Stan's so fun to work with, so. But yes, Ms. Nikki. [00:19:39] Speaker A: Yeah, well, before I get there, Stan Keeler, obviously all I'm going to be doing is plugging other episodes of the podcast. We do have a chat with him in an earlier episode, so do seek that out. It's really fun to hear from him. Yeah. Nikki, I mean, how's she. I mean, she's quite distinctive. She's got quite a golden face and has been a very protective mother in the past, but I don't think she has cubs anymore now, does she? How old is she? How's she doing? [00:20:03] Speaker B: She will be 27 this January. And yes, if there were a bear that I would have been afraid of in the past, it certainly would have been her. She was a very fierce protector of her cubs. Excellent mother. Doesn't let her cubs out of their sight. You. You approach or look at them in the wrong way and she's got something to say about it. Certainly doesn't let other. Other bears, not even other cubs or yearlings, come play with her. [00:20:37] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:20:38] Speaker B: Cubs or yearlings had some interactions there before that really just were a testament of how fierce and of a protector that she is. But yes, she has mellowed out with age a lot. She's almost. It's not even like she's the same bear. She's slowed down a lot too, which is harder to see. But I mean, just, just like people, she's got aches and pains now. She's a little bit stiffer when she walks. She's got gray in her face, know. But yeah, really, really neat to be able to see her just age and change over the last 11 years now that I've gotten to know her. [00:21:24] Speaker A: Yeah, she's a. Well, she's one of my top five bears for sure. [00:21:27] Speaker B: Yeah. So just a beautiful bear. [00:21:31] Speaker A: And of course, we have dominant male bear. Cheeky. He's. Yes, he was around again. He's in his 20s as well, isn't he? He's. [00:21:39] Speaker B: He. He will also be 27. [00:21:41] Speaker A: 27. Oh, he's getting on because. Because Isn't there? If I'm right in thinking there's another male bear that has been named Wessex who seems to be vying for kind of the top spot with him. Is that right? [00:21:54] Speaker B: No. Why did you say that? [00:21:55] Speaker A: I don't know. I think I read it. I think I read it in one of. An intern had written it, an article for the Bear in Mind, and I think that had mentioned Wessex, so maybe I. I just made that up. But. Okay. I mean, he's still the dominant male, is he? Basically, yes. [00:22:12] Speaker B: Shiki is still very much so the dominant male. [00:22:18] Speaker B: In, like. Truthfully, the only bear that I ever felt like was maybe challenging him was Vance. [00:22:27] Speaker B: But. But Vance wasn't around this year. I don't. We're not 100% sure. I did not see Vance this year. Apparently, Vance maybe came in while I was on vacation and they sent some photos, but I could not say for 100% certainty that it was him without seeing him in person. And then I just. They never saw that bear again, so. So, yeah, nobody really has challenged cheeky outside of Vance. And Wessex does have a. He's pretty young, though. I would say he's only, like, maybe five year old. [00:22:59] Speaker A: All right, so very young. Yeah. [00:23:01] Speaker B: Bear. So he's got some big shoes to fill if he's gonna try to take cheeky spot. But, yeah, I've never seen them interact. There's no to give cheeky space. Most of them don't even approach cheeky. They just. They know better. [00:23:18] Speaker A: Yeah. Big cheese. [00:23:20] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:23:21] Speaker A: Yeah. Was. So were there any other sort of notable bear behaviors you saw this year or. I mean, you just mentioned Vance, who wasn't around. Are there any bears that didn't return that you kind of want to mention just for posterity? [00:23:32] Speaker B: Yeah. So. Well, let's talk about the bears. Yeah. That haven't returned. And then don't let me forget to tell you some of the behaviors that were seen, because there was some fun stuff. So. [00:23:42] Speaker B: I don't. Do we talk about Nuremberg on the podcast at all? [00:23:45] Speaker A: He may have been mentioned at some point, but please. Yeah, no, I think Nuremberg was kind of in my head, as someone you might mention, because I don't know if he has been. So it'd be nice to kind of, you know, get him on record. [00:23:57] Speaker B: Yep. Nuremberg did not return this year, which broke my heart. Gosh, I don't know off the top of my head how old he was last year, do you? [00:24:11] Speaker A: No, I'm afraid not. And he's one of those bears that kind of. Because he Looked a little, you know. [00:24:14] Speaker B: He looks a lot older than he is, I want to say. [00:24:17] Speaker A: He was only like 22, I think. Yeah, he kind of had quite a bit of gray in his face, and obviously he had a bit of a dopey look. So. Yeah, just looked a bit older than his years, I think. [00:24:27] Speaker B: Yes. [00:24:27] Speaker A: Had a hard paper round, as they would say here. [00:24:30] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So Nuremberg, last year, he came in. I want to say he was one of the first bears that came in. It was early April. April. [00:24:41] Speaker A: What was the first bear in this. This year? Because you said Kenai was April 28, which is quite early. And was there someone before him? [00:24:49] Speaker B: There was. It was, yeah. It was like mid April that we had somebody and just an unnamed bear. Yep. Yeah. But so Nuremberg last year, came in pretty early. He was. He's very consistent with being one of the first bears in the beginning of the season at some time in April. And then we just did not see him again for the entire season. And anytime that. That happens for a bear that has been coming, I mean, for the. At least the 11 years that I've been here. But he was named by, I believe, Bill and cl. After a volunteer. So he had. Yeah, to my knowledge, he had come every year at some point in. During his entire life. So for him to not come back, I was, of course, worried that something had happened, because that would be unusual, to not come back to a food source at some point. And then he. He came in sometime in September. He just showed up in the middle of the circle. We. Super skinny, not able to walk. And so again, we didn't know what had happened, how he had injured himself. And so we just started to feed him and bring him water all day, every day. And then, as you just heard. [00:26:12] Speaker B: Kenai showed up injured, too, about. I don't. It was like, about a month later. And so we stayed on, not just for Kenai, but for Nuremberg, too. But, of course, you know, Nuremberg had come in about a month sooner than Kenai, so he had left. Gosh. I don't. I want to say maybe. I think he left by the end of October, maybe early November. And we just assumed he probably went and found a den nearby because he was able to walk a little bit, but not get very far without having to take breaks. And so, honestly, I thought for sure, although he's a little bit older, I thought for sure that we would actually see him again this season because he was a good, healthy weight and he was putting weight on. On his legs. And so, yes, when he did not Come back right away in the spring. I was worried, but you know, bears, bears find food somewhere else and sometimes their behaviors change and, you know, it's not set in stone. So I held on to hope for the whole season. But I guess we, I have to accept now that all the bears have left the sanctuary that, that something happened to him. And of course we don't know what happened. But if, if I had to guess, I think it's pretty common for bears to survive the winter. And then if he came out of the den injured, he probably depleted the, his weight pretty, pretty fast. He probably struggled to just find food if he was injured. Yeah, I don't. Maybe. I won't say anything further because. Yeah, you just, I mean, we don't know. Anything could have happened. He could have been taken by wolves. He could have. He could have starved to death. [00:28:03] Speaker A: Oh, well, I mean, he had a good run at least anyway. [00:28:06] Speaker B: He did, he did. And like, as sad as it is, we spent a lot of, like, I'm so grateful for the time that I got to spend with him last fall. We spent a lot of time just being with him. So, yes, I'm grateful for that. And yes, to be in your early 20s as a wild bear, that's pretty, pretty incredible. [00:28:26] Speaker A: Yeah. And it sounded like, well, he was well looked after in his sort of. [00:28:30] Speaker B: He was, he was one of those just like beloved, worn out teddy bears. [00:28:36] Speaker A: That's nice. And then, yeah. You said you had quite a few fun bear behaviors that you saw this year. [00:28:42] Speaker B: So I think, yeah. My favorite story from this summer was when Elsa finally came back in. She was. [00:28:53] Speaker B: Pretty skinny and I believe so when she had come in, it looked like she was hanging out by this tree where there were three cubs up in the tree. And I was pretty sure that I heard her make some vocalizations up at the tree to kind of just communicate with those cubs. So when I had seen her with them, I had assumed that all three were hers. Two of them were in one tree and then there was another cub that was directly in the tree next to it, which is. That happens. Moms put cubs up, make the command to send a cub up the tree. And they go up, you know, couple trees sometimes. And so she came in. This is on like the edge of our magic circle, kind of where our creek runs there. And she came in over our cedar mulch pile and started to eat. And this was like, you know, five o' clock in the evening. So there's a lot of bears. It's the end of July, early August. So it's not uncommon for there to be lots of adult males in the open eating and then a handful of, you know, adult females and some sub adults. And so she comes in and she's eating, and then pretty soon I start to notice that these cubs are creeping into the magic circle where all these adult bears are. And so I kind of like walked over there thinking, oh, this isn't going to be good. I'm going to just kind of see how this plays out. And one of the cubs gets to the cedar mulch pile, and there's an adult bear named Leia that is sitting on it. And she's a little feisty. She's a feistier bear. And so when I saw that cub approaching her, I was like, that's not. Mom, what are you doing? And so I stopped what he was doing just to watch because I figured that something would happen. And as the cub approached Leia, she. She hit the cub. She, like, swatted up the cub. It looked like. Like she actually made contact because the cub turned around and ran back to the tree line. However, the cub ran in the opposite direction that the other cub cubs were in the tree there. So they were separated. And so when Elsa did finally go to gather her cubs, she walked to the tree that the two were in and made a gulping vocalization. The cubs came down and then they left without this other cub. And so I'm. Like I said, I'm not positive that it was her cub because it wasn't in the same tree and it didn't listen when also said to stay up in the tree. But, yeah, I. We never saw her again with three cubs. We just saw her with those two brown cubs. I will say too, I think as long as I have been coming to the sanctuary, Elsa has had a litter of three at least every other year. Do you agree, Philip? [00:32:00] Speaker A: Yeah, pretty much. Did she have four one year, maybe. [00:32:04] Speaker B: I want to say that was four. One. [00:32:07] Speaker B: Yeah. Not last year, but the year before, I think that she had four. And I could look back on that too, for. To confirm, but. But, yeah, I think so. So. So, yeah, we just. I don't know, we didn't see a cub ever on its own at that point. The cub was black. So, yeah, there's a lot of unknowns there. [00:32:27] Speaker A: It sounds like. I imagine that the cub. Someone came and got it eventually when no one. When no one was around, obviously. [00:32:33] Speaker B: I hope so. But. Yeah, so I. The other thing I want to tell you about is the. The dead fish. Oh, yeah. [00:32:42] Speaker B: Yeah. Somebody went Fishing kind of all summer long at the sanctuary. And we were gonna cook a fish dinner with some of the fish, and some of it had just. We had seen it had parasites and stuff in it. So we just threw it outside in the magic circle, so still in the bear feeding area. And we do that pretty regularly with food that is, like, questionable because typically somebody eats it. We have, you know, raccoon in particular that. That visit pretty regularly that that will eat that stuff. And so we just threw it out in the woods within the magic circle. And I want to say it was two days later that that fish had sat there and got good and stinky and nobody ended up touching it. But I started to see cubs rolling in that nasty, stinky dead fish. And Elsa's cubs were the first to do it. And I'm like, think about a dog that rolls and maybe, yeah, another poop or. Yeah, dead fish. This. That is exactly what they are doing. They are rubbing and they are rolling and they are just having a wonderful time at it. And at one point, Elsa kind of came over and like, sniffed and then started to, like, roll in it herself and, oh, wow. That was the first time I've ever seen bears do that. And, you know, we know that they're closely related to. To wolves and to dogs, so it shouldn't have surprised me, but that was the first time we ever saw them do that. And then I want to say later that day, too, Sansa had cubs this year, too, that were very interested in that smell and started to rub their bodies and roll around in it, too. So very fun to get to see. [00:34:30] Speaker A: Yeah. Nothing. I mean, sometimes nothing surprises me now with bears. [00:34:34] Speaker B: I know, I know. [00:34:35] Speaker A: And I. [00:34:36] Speaker B: Right. And I shouldn't have been surprised because. But it just was neat to be like, I've been here 11 years now, and I am so seeing still every year something that I've never seen before. [00:34:45] Speaker A: So. [00:34:45] Speaker B: Always super cool. [00:34:47] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:34:48] Speaker B: And so another really cool thing that we got to see this year, Athena, she. Oh, gosh, she was born in 20. They're 10 this year, so her brother is Hades. They are 10 this year. She was born in 2015. She had five cubs this year. Right in the beginning of the season. She brought all five in. And she's not super great with keeping cubs. So honestly, we didn't expect her to keep all of them. She's not a very large bear. She's pretty picky eater. And so I don't know if she just can't take care of them all. She doesn't put on enough weight. Maybe that is a possibility that she. That that's why she doesn't keep them. I'm not really sure. But sadly, by. I don't. I want to say maybe mid season, she was only coming in with three of those cubs, and then we never saw her with five again. And, you know, being at the bear sanctuary, like adoptions do happen, we have seen females adopt cubs that were abandoned that we knew that they were not related to or assumed that they were not related to. So that is possible. But. But yeah, no matter what, she did lose two cubs. And then as far as bears, too, that just didn't come back this year. Outside of Nuremberg, I kind of already said that I don't think Vance came back this year. Vance was one of our adoptable bears. I want to say it was maybe like 10 years old this year, too. So that's always sad to see a bear that. [00:36:26] Speaker B: I have known for, I think certainly for his entire life, for most of his life, that doesn't come back. And then we were really sad to see that Darla only came back for a couple days and she should have had cubs, but we never saw cubs. She never brought cubs back into the sanctuary. And then we just never saw her again. And so, again, Darla was a collared bear. And so we know her movements for almost three whole years. And so to not spend any time at the sanctuary would be very unusual. So I want to say, yes, I want to say she was spending probably about when she had the collar on, 40% of her time at the sanctuary or, like within, you know, the sanctuaries. We've got 700 acres within that. That property or nearby. And so, I mean, I'm pretty devastated, but something had to have happened, certainly, because that would be very unusual for her to do that. And then just this year, I mean, food wasn't incredibly awesome. Like, the natural forage, it was fine, but it wasn't so great that she probably, you know, wouldn't have stopped at some point. So, yeah, I mean, I'll hold out hope next year that she comes in, but never say never. Not super promising. Yeah, no, but, yeah, I know, I know that. Just like, honestly, it kind of broke my hair. And sadly, I was on vacation when Jake sent me a photo of her and was like, is this darling? So I didn't actually get to see her in person. [00:38:05] Speaker A: So. [00:38:05] Speaker B: Super sad. Yeah. [00:38:08] Speaker A: But, well, you know, they. They live on. We remember them. [00:38:11] Speaker B: So they. I know. Yes. Yep, yep, yep. [00:38:15] Speaker A: Yeah. Following on from that, I was just interested, like, how how was hypophagia, the bear summer feeding frenzy, and how the bear activity was this year? I mean, was it. Was it different compared to previous years? [00:38:29] Speaker B: Yes. So the fun thing, I guess, about hyperphasia is that it is never the same. So it is different every year for us, you know, kind of what to expect, when it might start, about how long. But. But yeah, every year it's a little bit different because it is based on, you know, what the natural food is out there. And so, yeah, this year, thankfully, it was pretty easy. I think part of the reason it was easier is because there was a later start for berries. It was a little bit dry, so they. They grew a little bit later, but then they ended up being pretty good overall because we had a pretty wet season that I think they just. The berries were available for most of the summer. And so when that happens, we. We see typically less bears that are visiting and. And coming in to forage on the dried fruits, nuts, and seeds that we have, because they do still prefer to eat their natural food out in the wild. And so I want to say maybe there was a week where we had a lot of bears, but outside of that, it was pretty manageable, which doesn't happen very often. So we'll take it when we can get it. [00:39:42] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, for sure. [00:39:44] Speaker B: Labor Day fell really early this year, so we closed. I think our last day that we were open was August 31st. And so it was just really easy because of that, too, because then we didn't have the public at the end of the season to worry about, too, while managing all those bears. But, yeah, because we didn't have a ton of. It was nice. We were a little bit shorter staffed than. Than normal, too, for that time of year, but it was okay because the bear activity wasn't crazy. [00:40:12] Speaker A: All right, well, you're probably due an easier year because I know it's been a couple of years. [00:40:18] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:40:18] Speaker A: You've been run ragged. [00:40:20] Speaker B: Yes, absolutely. [00:40:21] Speaker A: Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, speaking of, like, what were some of the challenges this year? [00:40:26] Speaker B: Yeah, this season, you know, there's no two season that. That are alike. And I feel like there's always kind of. It's a joke. There's kind of always a theme of, you know, what goes. There's something that typically goes wrong repeatedly every summer. And I want to say just like this, this year, it was. It was a staffing issue. We had a lot of issues with. With staffing. So we ended up training three new managers in new roles. So thankfully, none of them were people that have had not been to the sanctuary before, but they had been in previous roles. Interns, volunteers, other staff positions. So there was a lot of training that went into that. This year was the first time that we hired five work campers, which was super exciting. But of course, there's a lot of training that goes into that. [00:41:22] Speaker A: Yeah, so it was. What is a work camper? [00:41:25] Speaker B: The work campers there, it's a whole network, actually, of people. So there's a website that people that are basically selling their houses and buying RVs, and they're living out of their RV. And one of the common things with the work camping network is that they purposely kind of pick new positions in new states with every season. So for us, our group of people, they stayed four or five months with us, and then they. They move on to another position. [00:42:05] Speaker B: In the winter, another state. And it's basically you're exchanging their work for like a RV site with. With the full hookup. And in our case, they're. They're getting the. All of their meals covered too, and a small stipend. So, yeah, it's. It's a really neat way of living. And, you know, you get to meet some really cool people. Our group this year, they were just super awesome with lots of cool stories and places that they've been in, places that they've worked. And so, yeah, we're super excited to be doing that again next year. But like I said, I mean, it was a new position this year, so there was a little bumpy trying to figure out how to schedule them in. And, you know, we had just different standards and expectations for those roles too. [00:43:00] Speaker A: Yeah. But I mean, it's nice to know that's an option for some, for people, you know, who, you know, less traditional route. [00:43:08] Speaker B: Yes, absolutely. [00:43:11] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. The rest. Should I continue on with the rest of the season? [00:43:14] Speaker A: Please do. [00:43:16] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:43:17] Speaker B: 2025 season was definitely a lot slower than we have been used to. We saw attendance was down quite a bit with less attendance. Of course, people are spending less money at the visitor center and in the gift shop, and with less visitors, there's less people to donate. And then we did see a huge decrease in our photography workshops and our photography sessions this year. I, you know, I really just think people were being cautious with what they were spending their money on, and people just didn't have as much money. And so we really felt that. I think we weren't the only ones. I, you know, have spoken with resort owners and other organizations like us in the area, and it was something that was Kind of widespread. So very scary when you are relying on, on making all of your money for the whole year in that short three month period. And then, you know, have, have a season like that where all the numbers are down significantly. [00:44:24] Speaker A: I know that you've introduced quite a few new projects and activities as well for volunteers and the general public who can take advantage of these things. There's a few of them. Do you want to talk about them? [00:44:36] Speaker B: Yeah. Nice segue. [00:44:40] Speaker B: You're getting real good at this, Philip. [00:44:44] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. I would say the most popular event this year outside of Breakfast with the bears, which we have been doing for, you know, the whole time that I've been with the sanctuary. And then I want to say, I don't know, they probably started it a few years before, before Ryan and I joined the team. But the Shadow a Bear was a new, new event this year that really took off. That was really, really fun, really popular, booked up really quickly for, I think we did three different sessions for it. And so basically what it is, is you are kind of shadowing a bear for the day. So if you've heard of a job shadow, but you're, you're partnered with a staff member. So myself and I'm basically just showing you what we do. So you're kind of, you're volunteering for a day, you're partnering with me. I think people liked the, the one on one aspect that they were able to ask me whatever they wanted. That first one that we did was super exciting. We got really lucky with all kinds of bear behavior. And so basically I had a great time because I just got to hang out and watch the bears and talk about the bears with this group of six to eight people for, you know, from eight to three. So it was super fun. But yeah, we had, I think, I want to say we, we got to experience nursing that day. We saw cubs playing and fighting. At one point, the woods kind of just filled up with a bunch of one and a half, two and a half year olds that were just kind of hanging out together and playing. So yeah, it was a really, really exciting day and I think people really just enjoyed getting to just hang out with the bears and kind of do a behind the scenes tour of what we do at the sanctuary. [00:46:36] Speaker A: What's our age limit like for that? [00:46:39] Speaker B: Yeah, Yep. So you do have to be 18 because you do have to, you know, go through the bear safety course and sign all the appropriate documents. So yeah, you do have to be at least 18 to do it. [00:46:51] Speaker A: Oh, that's really cool. And of course you'll be doing that again this year. 2026 that we're in. [00:46:57] Speaker B: Yes, we're gonna add a couple more because it was so. It did so well. So, yeah, we're gonna add a few more dates. [00:47:04] Speaker A: Oh, fantastic. Any other ones you wanna mention? Any other activities that people can get their grips with? [00:47:10] Speaker B: Yeah, we did a paint a bear event too and that wasn't new necessarily this year, but this was the first year that we did a couple of them on our viewing platform and so that was super fun. I think people enjoyed one of our work. Campers was the one that led it and she's super easygoing, super fun, great artist and did a really good job of helping some of our gals that participated in it to create something really, really fun and unique. I know that they got quite a laugh at what they ended up painting. So, yeah, super like low key and just kind of a fun event for people to just experiment. You definitely don't have to have any artistic skills because the whole point is to have the person that is guiding and leading that class to help you out with, you know, creating a masterpiece. [00:48:03] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I would, I would definitely need that help. I mean, I've been to a couple of these art classes and you know, painting some like drawing somebody and it always just looks like some weird Picasso esque thing. [00:48:15] Speaker B: Yes. [00:48:16] Speaker A: So yeah, yeah, I would definitely need help. Help. [00:48:18] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And we did a sun catcher make. Make your own sun catcher this season too, which. That was super fun. I. It was kind of meant to be geared more toward kit towards kids, but we had a lot of adults that signed up for it and I think it was pretty fun. Given that Kathy wants to do it again, I would definitely host another one of those this coming season. [00:48:41] Speaker A: That's great. Appeal to the child in all of us. Yeah. [00:48:45] Speaker B: Yes, absolutely. [00:48:46] Speaker A: No, that's really fun. Getting loads of new things, new programs in and. Yeah, what were some of the other highlights from the year? [00:48:54] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, we already kind of talked about it, but you just can't beat Kenai and Kenai coming back in and Kenai doing well. But you know, it's always really exciting when some of your favorite bears return. So for me personally, Hades, Nala, Hotshot and Grisette all came back this year, all looking healthy. Nala oddly had cubs this year, which I don't actually know how old she is. I know that I want to say I maybe met her in like 2015, 2016. I named her, but she was an adult there then. That was Having cubs already, so I had just assumed that she had reached senescence is the term for bare menopause. So to see her have three cubs this year was pretty wild, I want to say. They kind of took a lot out of her. She was a lot skinnier than she normally is. But, yeah, so we. We also had that new facility that we raised funds for for years with the flushing toilets and the showers and the laundry and the air conditioning. This was the first year that we had. Were able to use it for the full season. So that. That was a highlight, of course, for. For anybody and everybody that got to use that. That facility. And like I said, just like to have those work campers, to have five adults there, this. This year was really exciting. I'm excited that. So Josh and Heather were two work campers that we had hired for this last season, and we actually are hiring them to come back on next year as paid staff. So super excited that we're going to get to work with them again and that they'll get to be in a manager role this. This coming season. And then another highlight was just. I kind of already talked about this, but, but. But the breakfast of the bears has, like, really paid off finally. I want to say, when Ryan and I first started working for the sanctuary, we were lucky if we had, like, five people sign up. And this year we had to open it for a additional people. So I think that last one in August, I think I allowed, like, 70 people to come to do that breakfast with the bears. So that. That's always really exciting when an event like that, you finally get to see all your hard work pay off for that. And then, of course, I think outside of Kenai, one of the things that was the most exciting was that human bear conflict workshop that Ryan and I got to attend in Kalispell, Montana. [00:51:25] Speaker A: Yeah, tell us about that. Yeah, the seventh International Human Bear Conflict Workshop. [00:51:30] Speaker B: It was five days of bears. So what more could you want? Not just getting to talk about bears and to learn about bears together, but to be in the same room with all those bear experts and to get to meet some of them and just rub shoulders with them was a pretty. Pretty big deal. It was really, really exciting. [00:51:57] Speaker A: Yeah. What was some of the talks and topics kind of discussed? What were the. The standout ones for you? [00:52:03] Speaker B: Yeah, so the whole title for the workshop and the whole point was First Human Bear Conflict, of course. So everything kind of focused on that. And, you know, we learned so much about. About that. But, yes, there were a few that really stood out. [00:52:21] Speaker B: So Heather Johnson, she was a keynote speaker, I believe she works. I think she was furloughed maybe, but she works in Alaska with the Fish and Wildlife Service there. But her topic that she was talking about was with her work when she worked for Durango Colorado with the. As a wildlife researcher there for the, I want to say the Fish and Wildlife Service there. And her talk was about literally lessons learned from their research for peacefully coexisting with the bears in the town of Durango. And so they actually have made a movie about it, which I highly recommend people go check out. It's. I think it's just called Bears of Durango, if I. Yeah, remember, right. Yeah, yeah, I did check it out. Super cool. Her talk though was like so much more in detail, I want to say. So, yeah, so basically what it was is that they were testing. They had test areas. So they were looking in the city where bears were frequenting the city pretty regularly and they had a test area where they just had normal trash bins and they had an area that they had provided the residents with locked trash bins. And they were looking to see like just how successful it actually was. And what they found was if 60% of the people just kept their trashes locked, the bear problem in the area just like was. I don't, I don't even think it was like significantly reduced. I think it was just non existent. The bears just knew we can't get into these trashes anymore, so we'll just move on, which ultimately is saving tons of bears lives. Unfortunately, people, most people don't have a lot of tolerance for bears or other wildlife when they're getting into their trash and breaking into their cars, on their homes and whatnot. And so her work on that was just incredible because you could see the results that she was saving lives of bears. And when you go on to like the Bears of Durango website, they do have listed all of the different research studies and papers that they have published that are definitely worth checking out. Definitely stuff too that like, we plan on trying to implement with some of our town too. Because to see just how successful those locked trash bins are was huge. [00:54:47] Speaker A: Yeah, well, yeah, I mean, we repeat ad nauseam on this podcast about removing an attractant. Removes is what removes the problem. I mean. [00:54:55] Speaker B: Yes. [00:54:56] Speaker A: Can't emphasize it enough, can you? [00:54:57] Speaker B: Yeah, and that was something too that like the workshop really focused on talking about the fact that like, shooting bears is not effective and translocation does not work. The best way to tackle this and to coexist with Bears is to remove attractants and to use tools like locked trash bins. So the bears are just literally physically not able to get into those trashes. And so the workshop, you know, most of those speakers presentations, they focused on, you know, what that looks like and having years of research that supports that, that, that education is everything. So, so that was great to be able to like, see all of these agencies, non profits, non government agencies coming together to try to get on the exact same page. Yeah, I wish it's one of those things. Like, I wish that everybody that works indirectly or directly with bears, I wish that they, they all could have been present for, for that, but that was impossible because they only allowed, I want to say, like 300 people to attend that workshop. So. [00:56:13] Speaker A: Yeah, so you mentioned to me, you know, earlier, before this chat that there were a load of stalls and booths at the workshop and there was one that had loads of different products for hazing bears, like, well, you know, also known as like aversive conditioning, scaring them off essentially, but if people didn't want them around their property. And I mean, obviously we have tools for that at the sanctuary. But you were planning on getting a bunch of different ones from this booth, weren't you? For some variety. [00:56:39] Speaker B: Yes. So while we were there, there was a presentation about the use of drones to haze bears. And what they ultimately found was that the bears got used to it and comfortable with the drone noise and, and with it hovering. And so it no longer was effective with a fair portion of bears. And so, you know, they kind of talked about the need to change, not just change up the tool that you're using, but also like, for example, you don't want to use the air horn three times and then honk the horn once, because if you always do that, the bears get used to that and they, they know what to expect and then they just don't. They're not afraid anymore. So you have to be unpredictable in what you're using and how you're using it. So. So yes, there were lots of different tools that make different noises and you know, they had things like the, the bean bags that you can, could shoot and, and whatnot to. We're not going to go to that extreme. I think we're just going to test out some other tools that, that make different noises and, and that are a little bit more unpredictable for the bears. And, and honestly, there, there aren't a ton of bears that do get used to that. The, the air horn and the honking. But every year there's a Couple. So it would be nice to have other alternatives to change it up on them to. To scare them. [00:58:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:58:11] Speaker B: Back into the woods. [00:58:12] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. I think as well, it's obviously, especially when you're doing it from the car, there's a little bit more impetus for the bear to get out the way. I dug out my dissertation that I wrote way before I even visited the sanctuary when I was writing about humans effect on the feeding habits of black bears. And there was actually, because this sets me off in my brain about. I'm sure I wrote something about this and there was a. Some research that I talked about that had been conducted at like a Marine Corps base in North Carolina. And like this is like back from 2006. Apparently they found that black bears were unresponsive to loud military weapons training. And their use of the noise zones was more predicated on preferred vegetation growth in that area. But it was the. The lack of forest and frequent military use was they found where the main reasons why bears were avoiding those zones rather than the noise. So they hypothesized the intensity of the predictable disturbance events. You know, the responses to it just diminished over time. So I thought that was quite interesting. I thought I'd mention that. [00:59:10] Speaker B: Yeah, super interesting. And. And it's funny that that never really occurred to us at the sanctuary that, hey, maybe we try something else and change it up to see if that is effective and like for some specific bears. I'm sure you remember Mackenzie, how she did get used to the air horns and the honking and so then we had to do those things while yelling at her. And that proved to be effective for her specifically. But. [00:59:37] Speaker A: Yeah, well, yeah, it also comes down to that kind of idea that we have that there's a. An understanding in the area Right. Between humans and bears and the kind of know which areas they're tolerated and which they're not, we hope. Right. So that's why if they start hearing, you know, loud noises like that, they'll just get out the way because they don't want to be hassled. [01:00:00] Speaker B: Right. Yep. [01:00:01] Speaker A: But yeah, no, it's. It's very interesting. I'd be interested to sort of see how things pan out with that. [01:00:07] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:00:08] Speaker A: And I also wanted to mention as well, because obviously not a. Another plug. I mean, you saw friend of the podcast, Amber Cornack. She was at the workshop as well. [01:00:16] Speaker B: Yes, yes. And she's doing big, exciting things. She works for. It's a nonprofit called People and Carnivores. And so they're help, you know, MITIGATING conflict with not just people and bears but, but all carnivores in, in Montana. So wolves, cougar I think are their main three that they're, that they're working with. And so yeah, that, that was really, really neat to get to bump into her. I haven't seen her since 2014 in person. So yeah, super, super cool. [01:00:53] Speaker A: It's a small world, isn't it? [01:00:55] Speaker B: Well, it, it really, the bear community is a very small community and like as we learned, pretty tight knit community too where you know, everybody kind of knows everybody. So yeah, she was, I mean she's from Montana so a lot of the people there were, were from Montana. So yeah, she kind of knew everybody. So yeah. Good connection for us to have for sure. [01:01:19] Speaker A: Yeah. And I suppose just rounding off this conversation about the, the workshop, I guess, you know, I know you've alluded to it already, but I just wanted sort of to hear what your main takeaways were from it. [01:01:29] Speaker B: Yes, I mean I think the biggest thing for this year's workshop was for getting all agencies on the same page. So when I say agencies, sorry, I mean, you know like Fish and Wildlife Service, the state, state organizations, the federal organizations and then nonprofits like us, but also non government agencies as well. Trying to get everybody on the same page with wording and messaging. So you know, things like talking about relocating and using the word translocating instead or you know, moving away from problem bear and talking about it being a conflict bear because it's a conflict between human and people and not placing the blame on the bear. And so the workshop really was kind of focused around that and using the bearwise.org communications and education. And so we already were using that, but we're going to use it a lot more. So like specifically this year we'll definitely print like the educational flyers from their website instead of using the stuff that, that we have used in the past that is ours, you actually can put your logo right on those bear wise flyers and stuff. So we'll definitely do that. Another huge takeaway which, which we knew but it was important for us to see the data that supports this that shooting bears is not ever going to solve the problem. It is a people problem. We are moving into every part of their habitat. And so teaching people how to coexist by removing attractants and locking attractants up is how we're going to be successful from here on out for everywhere. I mean the cool thing about this workshop was that it wasn't just specific to North America, to black bears, brown Bears, polar bears. I mean this is something that people are, are dealing with worldwide. I think there was a guy specifically that came out and talked from Romania and I mean it just was crazy to like, you know, but you don't realize that this is this human bear conflict. It's everywhere. [01:03:53] Speaker A: Places like Japan obviously are having like record breaking reports, aren't they, of human bear interactions. Yeah, well, so yeah, it's everywhere. And obviously a concise management plan so bears and humans can coexist peacefully and act as normally as possible together. It's what's needed, isn't it? [01:04:11] Speaker B: Yes. [01:04:11] Speaker A: Awesome. Glad you were able to go. It sounds really fun. [01:04:15] Speaker B: Yeah, it was incredible. [01:04:18] Speaker A: Oh great. And well also, it has to be said, 2025 was, you know, a notable year for a number of reasons, but it was also the 30th anniversary of the ABA being founded, so I think it should be mentioned. It's almost like hard to believe. How was this occasion marked? [01:04:34] Speaker B: Yeah, so we celebrated with having all of our supporters, just visitors. We invited founders, past volunteers, interns, past staff out for a one night event where we let the public in for free. And then we did do some fun prizes, giveaways. That day we had a silent auction. We had some guest speakers. So a, a big one was we had Sonia Oliveri out. She has been a volunteer for the sanctuary since it was a sanctuary. So for sure for those 30 years she had been coming out, but I believe a few years prior to when we were actually formed and she gave a nice long talk about the history and how far we've come and so that was really exciting. Yeah, it ended up being a, a fun, fun day. We think we're thankful for really nice weather that day. Because it was all outside. Yeah, it was all outside. So yeah, yeah. [01:05:41] Speaker A: And, and the area around the sanctuary can sometimes have its own little microclimate. So you can, can be either, you know, sweltering humidity or other compared to around it. [01:05:51] Speaker B: Right, yes, absolutely. [01:05:54] Speaker A: And so what's the plans for the 60th anniversary then? [01:05:58] Speaker B: The 60th. [01:06:01] Speaker B: Oh, you're funny. [01:06:03] Speaker A: Getting there to start with is probably the first one. I also wanted to mention that the ABA held another silent auction in December. Just gone. So this was the third of what I believe is going to be an annual thing. I just thought it might be nice to sort of mention what sort of silent auction items you normally have. So obviously people can set a reminder in their calendars for later in the year. [01:06:25] Speaker B: Yes. So we typically do it early December so people can shop for Christmas Gifts and, and yeah, I think the, the big one, the one that people, well, there's a couple that people get the most excited about are we've got a sweet gal that donates a week stay at her Alaska cabin. And so that, that's a big one. Not just with our followers donors but also a staff usually bid on that one. And then we do have typically a few resorts that donate a weekend stay at their resort. So Cabino Pines has done that in the past for us. Gray Wolf Lodge has done that in the past for us. So those are big ones which, which is awesome and exciting because it gets people up into the area too and generates, you know, usually more revenue just for everybody in, in the area of our small little town of people. So. But yeah, there's lots of photography items typically on there. Lots of unique kind of gift experiences for people. So like there's a place in Duluth called Skyline where they, they have different bowling alleys type stuff, arcade type stuff. They, they donate a package which is super fun. But yeah, we just, you know, we get, we get so lucky. There's so many people that, that donate handcrafted items to that, you know, that stuff really does well as well. So yeah, we, we, we have done well enough that we will continue to do it every December, I think. [01:08:07] Speaker A: Oh, awesome. Well, I say one to look out for and then I guess looking ahead, any plans for 2026 you can let us in on? [01:08:15] Speaker B: Yeah, so one thing that I am super excited about for the 2026 season is that we have long term volunteer Ernie Page who does workshops for us. He has recently retired and so he has committed to doing additional workshops for us that I think he is going to do five different workshops for us where he's guiding you on the grounds with not just photography, but he's also pointing out bear behaviors and just educating about the bears that visit our sanctuary. And then in addition, he's going to do for anybody that books a private photography session and would like a guide to be there with you. Whether you just want to learn more about the bears and the history of the organization or if you want some tips on photography or just some overall help. He's, he's willing to have that as like an add on package for any of the private photography sessions. And to my knowledge this is the first time that we have ever done this and so we're really excited just to see how it goes if there's an interest in it. Photography is a huge, huge thing at the sanctuary that it's like to joke that it is literally what keeps the lights on. It's a very popular thing that people sign up for. So, so yeah, we're, we're hopeful that, that this will be something that he wants to do again and that people really enjoy by time that this is airing that that will be something that is live and is bookable on our website. So that that opens on December 1st every year. So by the time this is played, this, you will be able to book those. And I encourage people too to like book early. If you're serious about it, book early because those things do fill up. [01:10:12] Speaker A: Yeah. And yeah. And did you have any, any things that you think you'll be specifically fundraising for or asking like asking for donations for specific things for 2026? [01:10:26] Speaker B: Yeah. So every year we do an annual fundraiser called Give and Then or Give to the Max. It's been referred to in the past. It's a big one day fundraising event for the state of Minnesota. But anybody can give towards that. And this year we, we had a goal of raising $10,000 specifically for, for an extended season. So basically the last, I want to say three, four years, we have had an earlier season because it's been warmer. Bears are coming out of the dens earlier, um, because there just hasn't been snow or it's just been warmer. And then every fall, this, the season lately has been longer. It's been warmer longer and we just don't see snow and we don't see those hard frosts and so the bears hang out a little bit longer. And because of that we're having to keep staff on, you know, two, three, four weeks longer. And with that of course we were, we're feeding the bears longer than we normally would and we're having to just keep our, our, you know, the sanctuary open longer. And so we raised funds for that specifically for the Give to the Max fundraiser. But that is something that for the whole 2026 season we're going to be asking for donations because I think that is, it's just going to be a trend that we're going to see where with the warming climate that our season is going to probably get a little bit longer every year. So yeah, we want to kind of be proactive and, and plan for that ahead. [01:12:06] Speaker A: Yeah, you don't want to be putting fires out, you want to be looking ahead for sure. Suppose you do enough for that on a day to day basis. [01:12:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:12:14] Speaker A: Before you kind of get into the season proper, I mean, how are you spending the, the off season sort of winter time. [01:12:22] Speaker B: I don't think we're gonna really go anywhere. We're. I'm just. Yeah, there's so much work to be done at the sanctuary behind the scenes for the winter. And then I don't think we're going anywhere because of the comet. So we're still renovating and we've got a lot of work to do there. So I think we will probably just stick around. Sadly, we do have. It's a buyer show in Las Vegas at the end of January where we go and purchase all the merchandise for the sanctuary. And this will be the first time that we are doing that show. Last couple years, we did the Smoky Mountain show in Tennessee. But that's just. It's kind of a terrible timing. That one's in. No, early November, which having it at the end of the show at the end of January will be a little bit better. We'll have an idea of what our budget is for that by that point. So we're excited to get to go do that because. Yeah, like I said, it'll be a new experience for us. [01:13:19] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. I mean, as you just said as well. I mean, obviously with the seasons being a bit longer, it's a bit awkward for you to have to kind of go if it's in November. [01:13:26] Speaker B: Exactly. [01:13:27] Speaker A: Do you know which hotel you're staying in? [01:13:30] Speaker B: No, I. We. I haven't booked anything yet. [01:13:34] Speaker A: Oh, exciting. I'll be interested to see. I've. I've stayed at the Excalibur. [01:13:37] Speaker B: Did you like it? Was it worth it? [01:13:39] Speaker A: I mean. Well, to be fair, most of the hotels are affordable because I think, well, they're expecting you to spend your money when. When you're there. [01:13:45] Speaker B: Gambling. Yeah. [01:13:46] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, it was. It was fine. It was a little bit older, I'd say. I think a little bit dated, I thought. But, yeah, you know, it means to end. You stay there. And of course, all. All the hotels are connected, so you're just wandering through looking at everything anyway, aren't you? Yeah, that would be fun. [01:14:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:14:05] Speaker A: Thank you to Steph for joining us. It's always a pleasure, never a chore. And we leave it on a bit of a cliffhanger. Which Las Vegas hotel will she choose? Which one would you choose? Answers on a postcard. I've dropped some links in the show. Notes to some of the stuff that we've been talking about. Bears of Durango, Bearvault, and a link to the Shadow a Bear program, if you're interested. If we've talked about something that you want to know. More about or indeed we haven't mentioned, something that you are interested in, please feel free to reach out. So next time I'm joined in the Bear Den by Andy Trai, bear Project Leader for the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources, for an in depth conversation on bear conservation and management. Together we'll explore Andy's fascinating career journey and field experiences, diving into decades of research including black bear population dynamics, human bear conflict, educational initiatives, and more. See you there. [01:15:07] Speaker A: The Bear Den the American Bear Association Podcast was written and presented by me, Philip Stubley. The music was composed by React Music. Thank you to everyone who has helped make this podcast possible, including Karen Hauserman, Bill Lee, Clarie Lee, Stephanie Horner Douglas, Donna Brzinka, Ross Coyer and Angie Page. [01:15:26] Speaker A: You can find out more about the American bear [email protected] you can find Vinshudi Wildlife Sanctuary on Facebook and Instagram. You can ask questions and submit comments about the podcast to Peace Homericmericanbear.org the ABA is a special circumstance. We do not condone feeding wild animals. If you enjoy this podcast, help support the ABA either by donating, becoming an ABA member, symbolically adopting a bear, or come visit the sanctuary during the season and say hello. And if you do enjoy this, please do us a favor. It'll barely take you a minute on whatever platform you're listening to this on. Please either follow us or click the bell for updates and notifications. Please share with family and friends and rate the podcast as it all helps us grow and is greatly appreciated. [01:16:13] Speaker B: RA.