[00:00:01] Speaker A: Bears are made of the same dust as we and breathe the same winds and drink of the same waters. So wrote John Muir in his journal in 1871 after finding a dead bear in Yosemite, presumably Ursus arctus horribilis, commonly known as a grizzly bear.
There is a place in the remote northwards of Minnesota and North America. It's located near the town of orr. Population approximately 300. Outside this town is an area where normal rules are put to one side. It's a place where humans and wildlife meet. It's a special place, wholly unique and not without its controversies. This is the Vince Schutte Wildlife Sanctuary, run by the American Bear Association, ABA for short. The ABA is dedicated to promoting a better understanding of black bears and all wildlife through education, observation and experience.
I'm your host, Philip Stubley, and welcome to the Bear Den.
Hello. So in this episode we are going a little off piste taking a break from talking about the sanctuary itself, but we are going to look into a lot of topics that we cover at the sanctuary. Knowing bear safety and how you live, work and recreate in bear country are key to ensuring a peaceful coexistence between humans and black bears and brown bears. As for while there are no brown bears in Minnesota, there are plenty on the west coast of North America.
So I've got two examples today of recreating and working in bear country. Firstly, I'll talk about a hiking trip I went on in Canada in black bear country. And later on we're going to have a guest, yes, a guest speaker. So you'll have a bit of a break from listening to me prattle on. We're going to hear from Amber Cornack. So she's a friend I made at the sanctuary 10 years ago. Since then she has gone on to become a wildlife biologist and is going to talk to us about an experience in Montana when she was attacked by a grizzly bear and was thrust into a life or death situation where bear spray tipped the scales in her favour. A little warning if you have small children around or for listeners of a nervous disposition, we are going to talk about a bear attack. So there will be one or two gory details to prime you on brown bears beforehand. I'll give a quick talk about them. In general, we will be focusing for the most part on grizzlies and we'll touch on how to tell the difference between brown bears and black bears. So this first example is more of a lessons learned piece as I went hiking on Vancouver Island, a large island off the west coast. Of Canada, British Columbia, Known for its rugged coastlines, ancient woodlands, pretty chill atmosphere and surfing. It was an adventure suggested by some friends of mine while we were working in Whistler Blackcomb. I jumped at the chance without a second thought. Before I knew it, we were hiking on the Juan de Fuca Straits, part of the West Coast Trail and deep inside the temperate rainforest. It was dark, wet and I was completely unprepared, but it was an amazing experience and my first time hiking in bear country. Now, Vancouver island has its own subspecies of black bear, the aptly named Vancouver Island Black Bear. It's estimated there are more than 120,000 black bears in British Columbia. Six subspecies and over 7,000 black bears on Vancouver Island. This makes it one of the densest bear populations in the world. The Vancouver island black bear is larger than the mainland bear and they only occur in black colour. Phase after getting a ferry from the mainland, riding the bus and hitchhiking, we arrived at the starting point where caution bears in the area signs were in place. It was already getting dark, so we managed to hike to a point where we could pitch our tents. We were lucky with the tide, as when we woke up in the morning, it looked like we had pitched up in an area where the tide could have come in and washed us out. On the second afternoon, while we were hiking along the trail and we were feeling like we were in Lord of the Rings or Jurassic park, we heard a noise, which I now know was the heavy breathing a black bear makes when it's uncomfortable. We didn't actually see the bear, but we were aware of its presence. I had done some reading around hiking in bear country and half jokingly said to my friend that we should start singing to the bear so it knows we're here. He wasn't keen on the idea, so I'll never know if I had a burgeoning singing career. Later that day, we camped on the beach and overnight I heard the sound of pebbles crunching outside my tent. I didn't check on the sounds, and then the next morning we had realized that a yogurt pot had been left outside our tent and we could see it had been licked clean. If it had been a bear or another animal is almost beside the point. This was an attractant to the campsite.
That hiking trip was back in 2011, and I like to think that I've learned a thing or two since then. Black bears are naturally wary of humans, but may become habituated to the presence of humans in their territory. What would I do differently if I was Doing that same hike now? Well, I probably wouldn't have picked a weekend in late April, that's for sure, as the rain on the last day made packing up a choreography. Joking aside, hiking in bear country is a little different to hiking anywhere in the uk, my home country. And here are a few simple things I would now be aware of. Bear spray, for instance. None of us had bear spray. It may be a tool of last resort, but can make all the difference. In a 2008 review of bear attacks in Alaska that dated from 1985 to 2006, Smith et al found that bear spray stopped a bear's undesirable behaviour in 92% of cases. Further, 98% of persons using bear spray in close range encounters escaped uninjured.
I would also look for bear activity before setting up camp. I would now look for signs of bear activity, such as scat or claw marks on trees. I would stock up on bear proof containers and airtight containers. I would make sure that I've cleared away all rubbish and packed away things in sealed bags. Yes, that includes yoghurt pots and take only pictures. Leave only footprints. Bear attacks usually happen when a bear is surprised, so clapping, having bells or indeed singing can ensure the forest inhabitants know you're there. I've definitely mentioned this before and it'll probably get mentioned again in the episode, so apologies if you're binging this, but it's worth reiterating what to do if you see a bear in the wild.
If you see a bear in the wild, stay calm, back away slowly, do not run, don't make direct eye contact with a bear. Speak in a calming tone and if the bear does attack, use bear spray and fight with everything you have. Another nifty deterrent is that you can actually hike with portable electric fences to set up around your campsite. There are companies such as Bear Sentry Systems that provide lightweight systems which can be used if you're hiking in the backcountry or setting up a bigger camp. These can make it easier for people to access and enjoy the wilderness in a way that respects wildlife. These electric fences are usually set at a low voltage, so don't actually harm the bears and a deterred bear is more likely to stay wild.
Hiking, be it in the temperate rainforest, national park or local woods, is fun. Getting out into nature is proven to be fantastic for our physical and mental health. Remember, bear attacks are very rare. With a little research and understanding of bear country, we can mitigate the risks and avoid misunderstandings.
The International association for Bear Research and Management IBA for short has produced a Staying Safe in Bear country video written and produced by bear experts on safety around bears in North America. Although it was done over 20 years ago and looks a little dated, there is still a lot of relevant information in there and it is free online on the IBA YouTube channel. If you need something a bit more visual and if that's not enough, the BearSmart website offers a wealth of information. Get BearSmart works to minimise the number of bears being killed as a result of bear human conflicts and to keep people and property safe as well. They do this by helping people learn about bears, how to prevent human bear conflicts and how to become bear smart communities. There is a ton of educational information and resources for families, schools and anyone really.
In Western North America, grizzly bears and black bear territories do overlap and in some instances grizzlies do predate on black bears and black bears adjust their behavioral patterns where both exist. One thing you should be able to tell while out in bear country, especially further west, is the difference between black bears and brown bears. Firstly, brown bears are generally much larger than black bears weighing from 400 to 790 pounds and over 1,000 pounds in certain parts of North America. Brown bears have larger muscle mass around the shoulder blade which gives them their distinguishing shoulder hump, something black bears do not possess. This large muscle enables brown bears to dig and use their paws as a striking force. Grizzlies, a subspecies of brown bears are so named because of the silver tipped fur on their backs that give them a grizzled look. Grizzlies dig quite possibly more than any other bear species and they spend a vast amount of time ripping through the earth and tearing apart rotten logs. Their massive hump is also the muscle powering them as they dig out winter dens often in steep and rocky mountain terrain. Every day is hump day with these guys. At the other end of the humps we have the rumps brown bears rumps are lower than black bears so if in doubt, remember rumps and humps. Brown bears have longer sickle shaped claws measuring around 2 to 5 inches while black bears have shorter claws which are curved and less than 2 inches compared to a black bear's tracks. Grizzly tracks on their front feet are squarer. Brown bears also have rounder dish shaped faces and deeper set eyes. Additionally, the BearSmart website also has a quiz to test your knowledge and see if you can tell the difference between black and grizzly bears. If you take it, let us know how you did. Lets Continue this quick 101 on brown bears. Latin name Ursus arctus. So just to keep things simple, Ursus is Latin for bear. Both ursus and arctus mean bear, and Greeks used the term arctus to describe brown bears. Brown bears were first given this name in 1758 by Carl Aeneas, who was also known as the father of modern taxonomy. They are the second largest bear and the most common. Brown bears of several subspecies can be found in Europe, Asia and North America. More generally, brown bears are classified as least concern on the IUCN Red List, but there are several small populations that face local extinction. Their diet consists mainly of plants, including berries, fruits and nuts. They do consume calves, fish, carcass and insect larvae. They feed on salmon, often gathering in groups where salmon occur. They can survive in a wide variety of habitats, ranging from coniferous, mixed and managed woods in mainly mountainous region, coastal boreal forests, grassland, scrub, rich tundra and even desert. The colour of their coat is brown. Go figure. But they also have variations and different shades, ranging from black to blonde. That probably sounds familiar if you've already listened to one or two episodes of this podcast before. Brown bear cubs stay much longer with their mother than black bear cubs do with theirs. In some cases up to three years. Hibernation is broadly similar to black bears. Just to keep things simple, the brown bear has a number of subspecies around the world. One of the rarest subspecies of bear in the world is the Tibetan blue bear. It was first classified in 1854 and is rarely sighted in the wild. There are several specimens in zoos in Asia. They have shaggy fur and the fur around their shoulders and neck is yellowish brown, white forming a collar. This is not typically seen in any other brown bear subspecies.
The blue bear is noted as an inspiration for the Yeti. In 1960, Sir Edmund Hillary led an expedition in search of the mythical beast. They found two scraps of fur identified by locals as yeti fur. It wasn't until later investigations scientifically identified these as being part of the blue bear pelt. I would love to get into brown bears in general though, as there are many fascinating subspecies like the critically endangered Himalayan brown bear, the elusive goby bear. And brown bears are a bit of a hot topic in Europe and Japan at time of recording as more human bear conflicts are being reported. We won't now just to stay on topic, but I have done some deep dives into bear subspecies in the past in my free time, as you do. As previously mentioned, black bears alone have 16 subspecies that we could talk about. One for the future.
For the purposes of this episode though, we are going to focus more on North American brown bears.
North American brown bears were at one time divided into many subspecies based upon small physical differences mainly relating to skull measurements. Over time this list has been reduced down to the two currently accepted brown bear subspecies of grizzly bear and the giant Kodiak Bear. Kodiak bears live only on the Kodiak Archipelago in Alaska and are the largest and most powerful subspecies of brown bears and there have been claims over the years that the Kodiak rivals the polar bear for largest bear, period. The classic portrayal of grizzly bears on film and TV shows them as ferocious predators, but they are normally reclusive creatures. Grizzly bears are intelligent, curious and have excellent memory. They have good eyesight and excellent senses of hearing and smell and they spend most of their time alone except when breeding or raising cubs. A well known grizzly bear is Grizzly 399, one of the most famous brown bear mothers in the world, some might say with her own Facebook and Twitter accounts. She was born in 1996 and resides in the Grand Teton national park, northwest Wyoming. Unlike most grizzlies, Grizzly 399 gives birth to triplets rather than the average of two cubs and she has sired over 22 cubs and grand cubs. In 2020 she emerged from her den with four cubs in tow. Grizzly 399 is known for having become habituated to people, especially when near roads. A researcher determined that she seeks these roadside areas in favour over backcountry because it is safer for her cubs as they are less threatened by male bears that will try to commit infanticide. We'll add bear infanticide to the list of topics we will be covering in future.
As an addition, I'd recorded this episode a little while back and then sadly the news came through in late October 2024 that Grizzly 399 had been struck by a car and passed away.
Grizzly bears, like black bears, also enter the state of hyperphagia, the feeding frenzy they go through before hibernation. In this state their appetite is almost insatiable and they will eat for 20 hours in a row, sleep for four and then repeat. Grizzly bears in Alaska wait for spawning salmon to return in their thousands. There are so many salmon that the bears tend to eat just the fat rich eggs, skin and brain of the fish that they catch. They can consume a staggering 100,000 calories per day, the equivalent of 1,282 boiled eggs in Yellowstone National Park. Grizzlies have been witnessed climbing high into barren mountainous areas and turning over rocks. Their goal, to find army cutworm moths hiding underneath. According to research, grizzly bears can eat up to 40,000 moths a day. This little effort high return strategy may help them conserve energy. So if it has calories and winter is coming, it's fair game. And speaking of the Yellowstone grizzly bear population, in 1975 the grizzly bear population numbered around 136 and they were listed as threatened with extinction. The Grizzly Bear Recovery Plan was established in 1993 to guide management of these bears and by 2019 the population had jumped to 728. This is a remarkable recovery. In 2017, the population was removed from the threatened species list. But in 2018, protections were restored for the Yellowstone area population of grizzly bears under the Endangered Species Act. Scientists believe the Yellowstone area population of bears is recovered and may have reached its capacity for resident grizzlies in many areas of the ecosystem. So I think I've covered most of the grizzly bear info I've picked up over the years, useful or otherwise, and we'll shortly hear from Amber. But I do have one last thought as I can't resist. Earlier we spoke about subspecies, but what about hybrids?
What happens when a polar bear and a grizzly meet a pizzly or groler? When a polar bear, Ursus maritimus, and a grizzly bear mate, they can create hybrids. Although rare in nature, these pizzly grolar bears are starting to be reported in the Arctic due to climate change. Starving polar bears are heading further south to find more food. While the warming world is allowing adaptable grizzlies to expand northward. This movement is leading to more interactions between the two species and more mating. At the moment, these hybrids are quite rare, but they may become more common as temperatures warm and the species ranges overlap. Both bears share a common ancestor and polar bears did evolve from brown bears that ventured further north and adapted to their surroundings by growing bigger, thicker paws and warmer, lighter coloured fur. So polar bears coming south is, however you want to put it, some kind of interesting full circle history. Not repeating, but rhyming.
Now, it's all well and good for me to talk about bear safety and being bear aware, but now I'm going to welcome into the bear den my friend Amber Cornack, a wildlife biologist who has her own story to tell about a wild grizzly bear encounter.
Welcome to the bear den, Amber. Lovely to have you.
[00:16:45] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:16:46] Speaker A: All right, and so yeah, do you want to start by sort of telling us who you are and what you do a little bit about yourself.
[00:16:53] Speaker B: Sure. My name is Amber Cornack. I am a wildlife biologist. I've been doing wildlife work for about 11 years or so. I've done deer and elk, wolf, bear, all, you know, birds, turkeys, all sorts of. I've done trapping and capturing, mapping work, kind of been out in the field, done some section 7 work here and there, done a lot of public outreach and education, set up, you know, fences, done kind of a variety of. Of work. I really love my job and what I do. And I went to Oregon State, so I got my bachelor's at Oregon State. Really great school. I'm very thankful for that. And that's kind of what started my career. You know, I started volunteering right at the beginning when I jumped in and did as much as I could, and that kind of led me to where I am today. So I'm very thankful for that. So.
[00:17:48] Speaker A: So, yeah, obviously, like, we met way back when in 2014 at the Vince Shooting Wildlife Sanctuary. Did that have much influence on you, like, going forward or like, how. How was your experience there?
[00:18:00] Speaker B: Yeah, so I. I grew up hunting, and I always enjoyed bear hunting and deer hunting, and so I've always been interested in bears, but I was looking for something a little more. I wanted to work with bears a little more and kind of see if that's the realm I wanted to go into. And, yeah, I found the Vinci Sanctuary and I looked it up and I was like, okay, you can volunteer. And when I got there, I had no idea what to expect. And that was definitely, definitely it. And it was amazing just to be on the ground, you know, walking in between bears and it was seeing their behavior and recognizing that. So in that, you know, I've hunted bears from a tree stand and learned behavior, some of the behavior that way. But being on the ground with them was completely different. I mean, they knew you were there, and they still had the same, very similar behavior. So it was quite a shocking experience for me. And I connected with a lot of great people like you and, and Sarah and. And Steph and so many great people, and learn a different piece of outreach and education, which I think is very important in that. In that aspect. You know, driving the bus and taking people to that deck and having them get off there and explaining all the reasoning. And I've always hoped that people appreciate bears much more, just getting that opportunity to do that because it's so rare.
[00:19:24] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. And so have you worked much with bears since then?
[00:19:28] Speaker B: Yeah, so a lot of, you know, a lot of the bear work is a people work, really. So I've worked a ton with the public. Obviously, I've done some, like, capturing. So I've done some grizzly bear and black bear capture. So I worked in Florida. We were doing capture and monitoring. So we were putting collars on cubs and collars on adults. And then I was doing a lot of the monitoring and checking on the bears. And so then if a bear went on mortality, I'd go pick up the collar, do a KN ne cropsy, collect data. And then I went on to work in Montana and did some grizzly bear work. So I was collecting hair off of barbed wire for DNA purposes. And then I went to. Let's see, I went to Idaho and did a little bit of bear work, Just kind of some camera work and data entry for the hunters. So anytime a hunter comes in with a bear, they got to check it in. So there was a lot of data being collected with that. And then I went on to work again in Florida and I was a bear manager. So working with the public, doing a lot of outreach and education, bear mitigation. So if a bear, unfortunately was getting into a lot of breaking into buildings or breaking into, like, cars, we would unfortunately have to, you know, trap that bear and put it down because it ends up being a public safety issue. So there was a lot of public interaction there. And.
[00:20:41] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:20:41] Speaker B: Then went back to Idaho, same. Did some bear work. I went and worked in Montana, did some bear management work. Very similar. Right. Trap and bears if needed, but a lot of electric fence setups, a ton of outreach and education. And then I did the same work in Idaho. And yep, came back in Montana and was doing more of that. And yeah, now I'm back to doing computer work. So kind of been all over the place.
[00:21:03] Speaker A: Yeah, well, definitely. And so when you're, when you're dealing with the public, like, are there certain things you kind of find yourself reiterating quite a lot or certain questions you hear?
[00:21:13] Speaker B: Yes. So the biggest one that I hear is that I've lived here so many years and I've never had a bear get on my porch. You know, I've set up my bird feeder for 15 years. I've never had a bear here. And so that was, if I got a dollar for every time I heard that, I would be pretty rich and I could beat. Retire early.
You just never know. And so many. And you know, I always talk, when I talk to folks, I always say, well, yes, but now you do have a bear and you're going to Continue to have a bear. You know, it only takes that one time. And so that was probably the most common thing. And. And then bear spray. Everybody says bear spray is expensive, and my comeback with that as well. But it's four. It lasts four years, and it's $50 or $60 every four years, and it saves you from any medical bills that you may need. Right. So it's cheaper than the medical bills.
[00:22:09] Speaker A: Yeah. People probably think that stings them a bit more.
[00:22:12] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:22:12] Speaker A: So, yeah, I suppose that's a nice, neat little segue. Reason I sort of asked you on the podcast was because you've. You've had a bit. An encounter with a grizzly bear where I think. Is it safe to say bear spray saved your life at that. That point?
[00:22:26] Speaker B: Definitely. Yes, it definitely saved my life.
[00:22:29] Speaker A: Yeah. So do you want to talk us through that? All right.
[00:22:32] Speaker B: Yeah. So it was 2018. So it was May of 2018, so I just left Florida and. Or, excuse me. Nope. I was in Idaho. So I left Idaho for the summer to go to Montana. So I was in Montana, kind of the northwest corner of Montana. I was working on that DNA project that I mentioned. So I was out collecting hair off of barbed wire. We were also setting up corrals. So corral is barbed wire, basically, in a. Kind of like a square on some trees at knee height. And then you set up a trail camera, and that's so we can at least get photos of the bears, because sometimes it's hard to tell, depending on the season, what the bear hair is. And those photos gave us some more pictures. And in the center of this corral was always basically what I called as a blood smoothie. So just a whole mix of smelly good things in liquid form. And you'd pile up a bunch of branches and anything to soak it up to draw a bear in. So they'll smell it and roll in it, and then you'll collect some hair and you might get a couple of pictures or two. So I was working on that. It was. It was. You know, we had done, I think, three days of training, and then it was my fourth day on the job. I was by myself. And like I said, it was May, so there was still quite a bit of snow on the ground. Also, it was raining, and there was a bunch of runoff coming, you know, down from the. From the melting snow. And I came into this semi kind of open avalanche shoot. And before that, you know, I had bear spray on my chest. I was making a ton of noise. I was clapping my hands, and you Know when you're out there, you're. You stop and you listen and you're looking around. And so I got out there and was looking around and looking up to the right, and all of a sudden I heard, oh. And I turned to my left and they measured it. He was about 11 or 12ft from me, and behind him, it just literally dropped off down to the bottom. I knew immediately he was a grizzly bear. I had, you know, kind of seconds to react, and I just turned to the right. I dropped down to the ground. So I was kind of in that fetal position. I was on my butt and just leaning forward, and he was already on top. So when I turned to the right, drop down to the ground, he was already at my back. He had smacked my back and clawed up my arm. His entire body was on top of me. And I was just slowly trying to get that bear spray out of my chest, you know, not making a ton of movement. And I got it out of the holster. I took the cap off, and he reached down. He bit down on my skull, and I reached over my left arm and sprayed him. And he took off. I unloaded my entire. And I had inches, like an inch left when I ended up hiking myself out. But, yeah, so bear spray saved my life.
[00:25:07] Speaker A: Yeah. And, like, it didn't end there because you had to hike out and then, like, I mean, did you have to, like, I think, is this right? You had to drive somewhere to get signal to, like, then call somebody?
[00:25:18] Speaker B: Yeah, so I didn't have to. I. Luckily I had an inreach, but I had never used an inreach before. So I hit the SOS button.
But I was thinking, okay, I'm okay. How long is this going to take? Is it going to be four hours? Did it even go out? So I was also trying to connect with other people and texting as much as I could, but I was like, I am fine right now. I'm just going to hike my. I'm going to go. I'm just going to walk until I can't walk anymore. And, yeah, it was about two miles back to my truck, and I just yelled the entire time. And of course I had to cross that creek again. And it was super loud and I was just super nervous. But, yeah, got back to my truck and I was like, okay, I'm good. I'm gonna drive until I can't drive anymore. Same thing, right? If I feel like I'm gonna pass out, I'm just gonna throw it and drive.
[00:26:04] Speaker A: Right.
[00:26:04] Speaker B: Because I just didn't Know how long it was gonna take him to get there. And I. I figured I'd been hurt, but I couldn't, you know, there was so much adrenaline and everything going on. I just. I didn't know where. What was going on. I just. I was more focused on getting out and. Yeah. So I ended up driving, and I finally ran into somebody on the roads. Like I said, it was May, so it was. Bear season, had just opened a couple days before that, and I just pulled up behind somebody and was, like, honking my horn. Finally got him to pull over, and I walked up to him. I was like, excuse me. And he looks at me and he's like, oh, dear. I said, I got attacked by a bear. Can you take me to the hospital?
[00:26:40] Speaker A: You know, just like that, you know?
[00:26:42] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. He said, of course. And luckily, he was a retired military guy, so he was trying to talk to me and keep me engaged, and I don't know how far we went. And so we ended up running into the ambulance on this back road, you know, so we just. He's like, I got her. And he waved him down and pulled over. So. And that. I think that took at least an hour, maybe an hour and a half in between there. So by the time the ambulance would have got to me, it probably would have been another two hours, if not three. So.
[00:27:11] Speaker A: Yeah. So it was a very remote area you were in.
[00:27:13] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:27:15] Speaker A: And the recovery process from that.
[00:27:18] Speaker B: Yeah. So, you know, I was. I was in the hospital for only a week. They put about 65 staples in my head. So right when he bit down on my skull, I lost all my hearing in my left ear. So that, you know, it's been, what, six years now. That has been my biggest struggle, is losing my hearing. And I still struggle with that every day because I can't locate anything. And there's no replacing it. So literally, where he bit, I can't get a cochlear. There's no. There's no moving forward with that. So that's probably my biggest struggle. So when I'm out bow hunting elk, trying to call an elk in, I can't locate my dad's like, it's over here. And I'm like, no, it's on the other side. It's a battle.
Yeah. So I was in the hospital for about a week. It took a long, like, a month for me to get back in the swing because I had been out in the field constantly. And, like, I. It took a lot for me to just go up my driveway.
And so when the doctor came in and I was like, so I'll be back to work in like a month. She goes, no, no, you're gonna need. You're gonna be out for at least a year. And I said, we'll see. And about six months later, I was back to work, working in Idaho. So I wasn't doing the same job. I was doing something different that I'd previously, but I was working part time. They gave me some data entry, and then I picked it up full time, and I just started going back out in the field. And so I still have a lot of tough times. Right. So I can only sleep on one side. I've got some shoulder issues that I'm trying to work through because I. For so long, I slept in a recliner because I couldn't sleep because my head hurts so bad. So many headaches from all the staples and just so much pain, you know, after that. And so I'm still working through, like I said, the hearing loss and my. And my shoulder issues and just trying to get things back. Right.
But, yeah, I just. I kind of don't stop. I just. I wanted to keep going. I didn't want to let it slow me down.
[00:29:04] Speaker A: So I'm glad. Well, I'm glad that you. I know you said you're still recovering, but it's like, I'm really happy to hear that. You know, it hasn't stopped you. You still managed to get. Get up and do what you want.
[00:29:13] Speaker B: Thank you. I appreciate that.
[00:29:15] Speaker A: And. And I know, like, ever since then, you've done representation for, like, bear spray. Um, you want to talk a little bit about that?
[00:29:22] Speaker B: Yeah. So I'm a huge advocate for bear spray now. Yeah. Even more than I was before.
So I have definitely, you know, three big tips that I really push for folks. You know, while we don't big one, biggest one is, is to always carry two cans of airspray. So while we don't encourage and we definitely don't want people going out by themselves, I get it. Not everybody has this their team, right? They probably have some great friends, but they just don't like to do things outdoors or, you know, maybe your family doesn't hunt, but you want to get into that, but you haven't found the right group. So I never want to tell. I don't want to tell anybody that they can't go outside. So that's why I always encourage everybody to carry two cans of bear spray. Right. So you have one on your chest and an extra in your pack. And that is because when I was walking out, I had nothing. So I had that little bit of bear spray left, and that was it. So if I had run into another bear or a moose or that bear again, which could have been possible because I had no idea where he went, I don't know what I would have done. I would have just laid myself down and prayed that he didn't come attack or he didn't come on the defensive again. So always carrying two cans of bear spray and then really trying to get in that lay down, cover your head and neck position.
I've had folks ask me, you know, what about the fetal position? And right where I was. I mean, in the fetal position, I literally just got to where I could, right?
But had I maybe been on my belly, it may not have been my head, but again, it could have been anything else, Right? But really trying to get yourself in that lay down, elbows in the ground, toes in the ground, covering that head and neck position, because that is where you want to cover your guts, Literally cover everything. And, you know, protect your head, because that is super valuable. I'm very fortunate that, you know, while one of his canines, the neurologist said that did touch my brain, I'm lucky it didn't go into my brain. Like, I'm so fortunate that I'm able to tell this story today. So being able to get in that position is really key.
And then just really paying attention to those surroundings and making a lot more noise. And if you choose to be out by yourself, know that you are going to have to pay attention a lot more. And. And don't be afraid to turn around. Right. If you're seeing fresh tracks, if you're seeing something you're unsure about, it's okay to turn around, right? You got out this far and you try a different trail.
Nothing is ever worth running into a bear because they just. They have, you know, black bear workers, like bear, they have those defensive mechanisms, and they're out in the wild all the time, so they're. They're gonna fight if there's a carcass or if it's a female with cubs or if you surprise them, you know, which happens quite a bit. So. And yeah, bears free, I can't emphasize it enough. Definitely carry it. I carry it. You know, even in Iowa, I still carry it. You know, we're. Now they're starting to have bears in Iowa, and we hunt there, and it's so weird for me not to have it. So even if, you know, you're like, well, we just have black bears. Well, sometimes it's not always just a black bear. You could have that encounter where that bear's not leav. And that's where bear spray can really help you. So constantly carrying it and always having it with you is a good reminder for when you ever do go out west or you go someplace, you know, where the bears are way more active than where you may live. Just, it's like constant reminder. And it's not super heavy, so, you know, you just have it right on your pocket. You don't even realize it's there.
[00:32:42] Speaker A: That's very true. And the bear that you encountered that was like. That was just like a kind of freak accident, wasn't it? It wasn't like a sort of conflict bear or bear that was seeking you out. It just did just happen to be, oh, we've bumped into each other.
[00:32:55] Speaker B: Yeah. So it was very much a defensive encounter. So again, defensive encounters, when you surprise a bear, when it's a female with cubs or when they're guarding a food source.
[00:33:05] Speaker A: Are we. Are we saying this specifically for. For grizzly bears? Because.
[00:33:08] Speaker B: No, this is for black bears too. Yep. So this is very same behavior. So black bears and grizzly bears will. They'll display this. This type of behavior. Right. So if they. You run into a bear, like in my instance, very much a surprise. He was so focused. He was. What he was doing, he's eating glacier lily balls. So he was flipping over rocks. He was really focused on that. The creek was really loud. It was raining, so there was a lot of other avian noises all around us that he just wasn't paying attention. And so when I came, I didn't know he was there. Right. Obviously, I was making a ton of noise and he was behind enough brush that I just didn't even hear him either. And so when I came up on it, he was like, hey, you know he does that. He's like, hey, who are you? It was totally surprise. And he was defending himself. Right. Because I surprised him and he had no idea what I was. He didn't understand why I was there. So it was just. It was that defensive mechanism. And like I said, black bears display that as well, too. Majority of bears will run every time. If they hear you before you're there, they'll take off running. But a lot of times, another tip I give folks is that we have to pay attention more than the bears. Sometimes they are so focused on eating. Eating the huckleberries, or they're just driven by their nose so much that they are not paying attention to Anything else that they end up getting running into a surprise encounter with the person because they're like, oh, I smell something, I gotta get on this. I'm super hungry. Especially during times when they're really trying to bulk up and, and build that fat. Right. So we really have got to be the ones that are paying more attention than the bears.
[00:34:48] Speaker A: Is there any sort of other advice that you would give to people that are going out into bear country?
[00:34:52] Speaker B: Yeah, so I think the biggest other issue we run into is folks with headphones. Everybody's got headphones now. When you are out in the wild, when you're out west, when you're outside, take those headphones off, enjoy the sounds that are all around you. A lot of people when they're doing huckleberries, when they're picking huckleberries, they put music on or they put in headphones and they're just plucking away. Well, bear's not going to hear. You end up being quiet. And it's something like a radio. Bears are used to hearing that, especially if they're going by a busy highway or they're crossing certain areas. Like they hear music. It's not sounds that are going to deter them. Right. It's not something our human voice is the best thing that we can use to deter. To deter bears. So by putting in headphones or playing that music, music, it's actually distracting you and keeping you from hearing a bear or a moose or another. Any wildlife from coming into that area. Right. Again, these are all noises. Chainsaws. These are all noises that, that bears and other wildlife hear constantly and they just get used to those noises. So, yeah, that's another key thing. It's super important. And carrying bear spray, every person in your party should have their own can of bear spray. And that's because if the one person has the bear spray and they're the ones that get attacked, then nobody else is going to be able to help them. But with every person in their party having bear spray, whoever's getting attacked, anybody can spray them, so.
[00:36:20] Speaker A: Oh, well, thank you very much. Was there anything else you kind of wanted to talk about?
[00:36:23] Speaker B: I mean, that was a lot. I feel like I'm throwing a lot out there.
[00:36:25] Speaker A: That's a lot. No, no, it's like I'm, like I say I'm very appreciative for you just coming and talking to me about it because it just hits home a bit more. I think it drives a point that people should be carrying bear spray and bear aware.
[00:36:37] Speaker B: Yeah. And do their research. I Think that's the other tip. You know, definitely if you're going to come out to Montana or even Colorado or wherever you're going, do your research. Similar to Florida, right? We always, we had a lot of rentals there and so people would come in and they're like, well, I don't understand how to use this bear resistant trash can. It doesn't matter. And then the bears get in there. So take the time to do the research and recognize that those things are really important because it can turn one non conflict bear into a conflict bear that really was just looking for food. So doing your research and seeing what bears and even other wildlife are out there and grabbing that knowledge before just like coming out there and just running with it, it's super important. And it helps the bear managers and it helps the wildlife managers because no, no biologist, no bear manager, no wildlife manager goes to their day like, yep, I'm gonna put a bear down today. It's gonna be a great day, right? That's the hardest part of our job. And so we love working with the public and we love working with bears. But men, to have to put a wildlife species down from an incident that was, you know, public related or just trash being left out is so difficult. And it's the hardest part of the job. And so just, you know, doing that research is extremely important and, and paying attention to those things. And don't be afraid to ask questions or call, call the state agencies or call somebody who might know. Again, we love talking in the public and that outreach and education and communication is really key. So don't hesitate to just call somebody up and be like, I don't know what I'm doing, what do I need?
[00:38:13] Speaker A: Thank you once again to Amber for taking the time out to talk to us and share with us a real life example of how a little research and bear spray can save your life. And also to give us another perspective on wildlife management.
Also, if you're currently out in the forest listening to this on your headphones, take those headphones out and enjoy the forest. Amber has also put me onto another great resource for anyone planning to go out into bear country or interested in bear management, the Interagency Grizzly Bear Committee. More on that in a moment. First we'll talk about what's coming up in the next episode. So after this little detour, we will be returning to the Midwest and the Vintudi Wildlife Sanctuary. We've covered most of the history of the sanctuary and some of the individuals involved. It's been quite a trip. The story doesn't end there as next time we'll talk about the sanctuary in the present day and how it has changed in the 10 years that I've been involved and what's happening right now. We'll see you then.
The Bear Den the American Bear association podcast was written and presented by me, Philip Stubley. The music was composed by React Music. Thank you to everyone who has helped make this podcast possible, including Karen Housman, Bill Lee, Clarie Lee, Stephanie Horner, Donna Brzinka, Ross Coyer, and Angie Page. You can find Bear sentry
[email protected]. the Bear Smart website offers a ton of information from learning about living with bears, creating Bear Smart Communities, recreating in Bear Country, Bear Safety at Work, and managing Bears, which is aimed at wildlife officials. Find it at www.bearsmart.com. the Interagency Grizzly Bear Committee supports recovery and delisting and ongoing conservation of grizzly bear populations and their habitats in areas of the Western United States through interagency coordination of policy, planning, management, research and communication. The IGBC is a cooperative effort of its members members. You can find out more about them and being bear
[email protected]. you can also find out more about the American Bear association at www.americanbear.org. you can find Vinshooty Wildlife Sanctuary on Facebook and Instagram and you can ask questions and submit comments about the podcast to piecewericanbear.org the ABA is a special circumstance. We do not condone feeding wild animals. If you enjoy this podcast, podcast help support the ABA either by donating, becoming an ABA member, symbolically adopting a bear, or come visit the sanctuary during the season and say hello.
